by Chris Barnes
January 8, 2008

Pale Divine have been stalwarts of the American Doom scene for well over a decade now, recently releasing the highly regarded Cemetery Earth on Sweden's fledging I Hate label and out playing live more than ever before. Collectively, Pale Divine are incredible musicians, and sitting down to listen to a Pale Divine album, in my opinion, should be a commitment to inspired listening – they are an album band in that every track must be soaked-in to be optimally appreciated. The power of the riff is exceedingly evident, but the PD way is more complex… it's like listening to a melancholic Traffic or even a gloomy Gov't Mule. The beauty of Pale Divine has always been it's willingness to explore with the music, often resulting in extended jams that are really a rare find within the sphere of heavy, intense music. Hellride converses with Pale Divine / Falcon drummer Darin McCloskey at length about the band and it's music.

Hellride Music: First, congrats to you and the band on the new album, Cemetery Earth. Like predecessor, it's a mammoth motherfucker, takes a couple of spins to get the head 'round all that's going on. I'd like to address a couple of things that I got out of my first couple of spins - first, where are the doom-jam hippie freaks from Glen Mills, PA?? I mean, I don't think you guys will ever lose the jam aspect of the band (and that's something I firmly believe you should keep), but Cemetery Earth is decidedly more 'metal' than the previous two full-lengths. I hear less 70's hard rock influence, more darkness and more anger to be honest. Was it a conscious decision to progress as a band or were the songs on CE a natural result of the changed chemistry of the band due to John Gaffney replacing Jim Corl on bass? Or were you guys just feeling particularly dark and angry during writing time?

Darin McCloskey: Well, we always try to progress from album to album and we consciously try to avoid the recycled riffs dilemma so basically we just continued down the path that we started on Eternity Revealed We've always been a metal band first and foremost so the “more metal” thing that people are going on about is something that kind of eludes me really... but whatever, it's cool that we're being recognized more for that but it honestly wasn't something we tried to do, it wasn't something I think we needed to do. I guess it just sort of shuffled it's way to the forefront a bit more along the way.

John Gaffney brought a lot of ideas to the table and when it was all said and done his influence helped things sound perhaps a little different than the previous two records. Obviously that's going to happen when someone new comes on board that contributes material. John is the first member we've ever had in the band that actually contributed anything worthwhile. That's not to say that other members didn't try but clearly John has his head more in the game, so to speak, than some of the others.

In general I thing we just matured a bit more in the song writing department and we just didn't feel that it was necessary to make songs longer than they needed to be or fill space up unnecessarily with extraneous guitar solos. That was something that I guess we experimented with and in some case the results were good and other times maybe not so good. I think we took a lot more consideration with the material on Cemetery Earth and we put more emphasis on the melody and the emotional feel this time more than “the jam.”


Hellride Music: I see. The second thing I'd like to discuss is Greg Diener. I don't understand why his name isn't mentioned more frequently among the current greats in our scene. The kid is just a phenomenal player, certainly from a technical aspect, but also much more from an emotional aspect as well. I don't think I've used the word "licks" since Foghat Live or someshit, but the man makes me bring back that word into my guitar vernacular. What's with the kid? Shy? What? We don't hear from him much. What's the man like behind the guitar?

Darin: Geez, I'm not sure what to say... he's a man of great mystery and we're all in awe of his mystical talent. Na, he's been my friend for over ten years now and we get along pretty well. I'm gonna guess probably better than most guys working together in a creative situation. He's pretty quiet, not unlike the rest of us and works hard and generally seems to spread himself pretty thin at times (again, like the rest of us) while still making time to commit to Pale Divine with 100% enthusiasm. From a musical perspective sometimes working with Greg can be a little tricky as you have to know when to give him his space to work things out. I think he likes challenges and when it comes to his writing I think he tries to come up with something that isn't always the simple solution. I think that's really cool and in turn sometimes it inspires us to push ourselves a little further as well. Sometimes we have to. It all makes the writing and playing more exciting.

Now, to address the other part of your question... by “greats of our scene” I'm assuming your talking about Dave Chandler, Wino and Victor Griffin? The more “well known” players in the Doom scene? Who else is getting credit within this scene? Those guys have been around for a long time and their contributions speak for themselves and even THEY don't get the recognition they deserve! Chances are it's going to be a long wait for Greg as long as he's a part of this scene. Then, when you add in the fact that we haven't played out as often as we should and there's a generally three year lag time pattern between albums it all sort of adds up. In spite of that though does he deserve more credit and recognition? Sure, absolutely. Like I said, I've been playing with Greg for over ten years so maybe sometimes he doesn't “blow me away”a much as he should but I can certainly still recognize that he has a lot of talent and working with someone as talented as Greg has made it easier to pull off some of the shit we have in the past. I guess it's safe to say you can attribute most of what Pale Divine has offered this scene to Greg because it's mainly his guitar playing that make people stand up and take notice. Every review we've ever had since the beginning pretty much singled Greg out for his guitar playing... every album the accolades get better and better. I'm pretty sure he appreciates it and it's encouraging to him. As an aside, I also predict that folks will be saying the same thing about our new guitar player John Klein as time goes on. Between Greg and Klein the Pale Divine guitar arsenal is pretty fucking killer now!


Hellride Music: Lyrically, you guys tread some pretty dark material here, a great deal centering on elements of the Christian religion. Lot's of talk of Hell, souls, etc. Are you guys all of Christian faith or is it all more of a matter of fascinating subject material to cull from? Specifically, in the title track "Cemetery Earth", I get the overall feeling that you guys are pretty certain we're all fucked and we're all fucked pretty soon. Given the current state of the world in terms of politics and climate changes, I might tend to agree. Am tracking with you guys or way off?

Darin: No, I don't think we're all “fucked” I think there's a lot of fucked up shit in the world and it's discouraging sometimes but on the other hand, every once in a while you hear or see some monumental act of kindness or compassion that makes you have to sit back and rethink the whole thing. That's what I think is the mind set behind Pale Divine lyrics. Even in the darkest hour there's always a glimmer of hope, there's still light at the end of the tunnel you just have to find it. That's the challenge of life.

As far as Christianity is concerned no we're not a “Christian band” we don't use our music as a vehicle to promote any sort of religious agenda. What we've done in the past, specifically Eternity Revealed is examine aspects of human spirituality and present them in such a way where you decide whether it's effective or ineffective. I don't like to preach to people or come off with some kind of a message. I just like to develop concepts around interesting subject matter to hopefully stimulate thought.


Hellride Music: You guys once again used the famous Polar Bear Lair studio with DC doom legend/engineer Chris Kozlowski. What does Chris offer Pale Divine as opposed to other choices in engineers and studios? What's the magic all about, McCloskey?

Darin: The magic pretty much centers around beer and there's usually plenty of it at the Polar Bear Lair! Well, of course that's not completely true. Chris is just an awesome guy and an amazing engineer. We feel comfortable working with him and I think it's easy for us to communicate with him so that by the time we leave with our music on tape we have successfully achieved what we intended to do. He shares an interest in the music of the bands he works with and wants things to turn out as good as they possibly can. We work with Chris because he loves this genre of music as much as we do and he understands it plus he has the knowledge to make our ideas come to fruition. I can't think of anything else to say really... he's the best.


Hellride Music: Certainly one of the most successful Doom-oriented music festivals in recent memory took place in April of ‘07 in Baltimore. Doom Or Be Doomed may set the benchmark for fests to come - attendance was great and it sounds like everyone played their hearts out and had a good time. Of course, I couldn't be there. So, what was the fest like for Pale Divine? How did you feel about your set and what are your general feelings on the fest itself?

Darin: I think it could be considered the best Fest of it's kind. Not to diminish what anyone else has done because they've all been great, and I mean that. But the really special thing about this fest was that it not only included some “one time only” appearances but also some of the legendary bands of the MD/DC area on their own home turf. Case in point, Unorthodox absolutely blew me away! I saw them in Ohio when they played the SHoD II fest but that was nothing compared to the performance at DoDB. Dale was on fire! Of course there was also the experience of seeing John Brenner front not one but TWO incarnations of Revelation!! Shit, the one time only Penance set which was amazing... Al Morris and Iron Man. Every band was excellent…but beyond that the atmosphere and the vibe of the entire weekend was really positive and everyone was excited to be there. Josh and John did an amazing job organizing everything which I'm sure was no easy task when you consider that John Brenner played three sets that weekend and Josh played two... I mean hell, that alone is enough to keep you preoccupied then when you consider they kept the situation under control and made sure that everything went smooth it really was an amazing task.

For us the festival was a lot of fun because it was the first chance we had to play the new material from Cemetery Earth so that was exciting and also it was the debut performance of our new guitarist John Klein so from that perspective it was a memorable time. The crowd was awesome too... that has to be said, so much enthusiasm and support was coming from the audience all weekend it was really unbelievable.


Hellride Music: Yeah, the feedback was consistently amazing on that fest, hopefully we'll get a DoBD II at some point. Back to the subject of Pale Divine - You guys recently added John Klein to fill out the live sound, correct? Tell us about him and will he be a full-fledged contributing member to Pale Divine from here on out?

Darin: His name is John Klein and so far so good. We've played a handful of shows so far since his debut at DOBD and it's been great. Definitely adding Klein has filled the sound out but his solos are fucking killer too... hearing him and Greg trade off leads is pretty sick. His dedication and commitment has been 100% and really we couldn't ask for anyone better. We've tried out guitarists from time to time before but no one ever came close to having as much to offer as Klein. I'm really anxious to get back in the studio with the current lineup.


Hellride Music: I always like to get the take from the people I interview on the current Doom scene, both here and abroad. Give us your general sense of what is going on, the good, the bad, the who-gives-a-shit. Also, give us your take on the current Heavy Metal scene. Give us your best guess as to whatever became of Fred Durst. Where is metal headed?

Darin: First, I DO actually happen to know where Fred Durst is. It's not that big a secret around here he works at the mini-market here in town and can be heard having deep discussions with his co-worker about the current Metal scene and where it's headed... it's kinda sad but also entertaining in a way because he keeps talking about when he “gets the band back together” and how he still knows A LOT of people at SPIN magazine.

The Doom scene is alive and well as long as The Gates of Slumber and Orodruin are still active... if any ill fate should befall either of those two bands Doom will cease to be.

Where is Metal headed? Metal is headed where ever Argus takes it... end of discussion.


Hellride Music: HA! Butch Balich's Argus project, great stuff. What's next for the band? While you're at it, give us an update on Falcon. Perry is now in Oz correct? Will the band live on?

Darin: Yes, Perry is newly wed and living down under. The new Falcon is complete and last time I spoke with Perry he was waiting for the artwork/design to be squared away. It's obviously taken a lot longer than we had intended but considering the circumstances it's not surprising. I love the new Falcon CD and I'm really anxious for people to hear it, there's some REALLY amazing songs on it. Perry and Greg are brilliant songwriters and it's been such a pleasure being involved with Falcon. I'm ready to start working on the third one!

As far as Pale divine is concerned we're playing around as often as we can and currently preparing material for the fourth CD. The writing is coming along pretty well so far and I'd say that we have about four or five new ones nearly complete so hopefully we'll be able to have something new out well within our usual three year span... fingers crossed anyway.


Hellride Music: Thanks - you know all of us here at Hellride are big fans and wish you and the band nothing but the best success for the new album. Any last words?

Darin: Well, likewise we're big fans of Hellride... and we thank you for the interview and especially for all the support over the years.



Purchase Cemetery Earth, Eternity Revealed, and Thunder Perfect Mind at the Hellride Music Superstore

Visit the Pale Divine website at www.paledivine.com

Visit the Pale Divine forum at www.hellridemusic.com/forums/paledivine

SteveMortalBe

Great interview, great band. As for the great Doom guitarist, obviously they forgot Steve Wilson and Russ Thompson of So Mortal Be

Obviously...

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Doom on

borntoodoom

Cemetary Earth rips! Can't wait to hear the new Falcon!

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"No coward soul is mine, beautiful twilight, martyrs by the thousands. With wisdom grows doubt. Breathes there the man with soul so dead. In the night that covers me, the head, the heart, the hand. I am the grass: I cover all." - John Brenner

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luciferburns

Fantastic interview, Chris. Great questions too. I personally can't say enough good things about Darin & Greg & Pale Divine. Over the past 10 years they have become one of my favorite bands. Each release is just better and better, although i still remain a big fan of "Crimson Tears", the new release just slays. The preformance i witnessed at this years past DOBD Festival was easily one of their best since first seeing them live. The new members (John & John) are both excellent musicians, and seem to have the right "personalities" to work with Darin & Greg. Good luck to P.D. in 2008

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do what tho wilt and harm none, shall be the whole of the law.

Darin

Damn, I knew I'd forget someone....maybe Chris will edit it in

Thanks for the comments guys! Much appreciated.

Here's some more pics...

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winoguy

Nice job Chris. Can't wait to hear that Falcon. I put Cemetary Earth #3 on my 2007 list.

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PETE

http://www.myspace.com/doommetalpatches

Anyone interested in trading cdrs email me at peterlugo6@comcast.net I have around 3100 titles of doom, NWOBHM, thrash, hardcore, grindcore, black, death, 70's, classic, sludge, stoner etc.

DaveBloodFarmer

great interview! i need to get cemetery earth.

perry played me some of the new falcon album before he left for oz and "corporate whore" has been stuck in my head ever since!

Darin

Hey Dave, yeah Perry told me you guys were hangin' and jamming together shortly before he left...said he was having a blast!
Anyway, yeah "Corporate Whore" is really a cool track. The Buffalo cover of "Leader" turned out really good too. Perry should be hitting us up with an update and sneak peak of the artwork here any day now....

__________________
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cool pooch guy

This band is so great, I would drive to a tiny club in Delaware and sit through four other mediocre bands just to watch them for half an hour.

Hypothetically speaking...

Darin

Thanks Mark,
Well, in ANOTHER hypothetical situation (curiously similar to that) we'd probably even pack up all our shit...drive 45 mins. to an hour away just to play for you and maybe 15 others at 1:30 in the morning for half and hour.

We'd even do that same sort of thing on March 2nd with those lovely and talented Virginians VALKYRIE. So, hypothetically speaking if you wanted to consider checking that out then that might be cool too.

__________________
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Peter Vicar

One of the best bands out there, and really nice people as well... Cemetery Earth was among my favourites from the last year as well, solid fist of doom!!! And looking forward new Falcon offering as well, the first one was amazing.

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ORNE,
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Darin

Thank you sir.

__________________
"Mr. President, this is a big fucking deal,"
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www.paledivineband.com
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Falcon

Cheers for that, Peter!

I hope to be posting the cover of Die Wontcha soon. The artist is lagging like crazy, and which is really frustrating. At this point I'm pretty much resigned to only letting him do the cover (this is NEARLY done) and the disc art. Which leaves the rest of the booklet for me to do. It's only been just over a year since the album was recorded, so we're not quite descending to Chinese Democracy proportions. (No, I'm not a G'n'R fan!)

Darin

For the latest Falcon updates go here:

http://www.hellridemusic.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=16935

__________________
"Mr. President, this is a big fucking deal,"
-Joe Biden

www.paledivineband.com
www.myspace.com/paledivine
www.falconband.net
www.myspace.com/falconband
www.myspace.com/enterthesinisterrealm